Theory question

souna · Post by **souna** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:41 pm

Hi everyone,
I have been reading a lot on theory and thanks to all the sites and the help everyone's been giving here I sort of get a lot of theory. I still have a problem I dont know what the minor harmonic and mellodic are and how to apply modes to them. Help would be greatly appreciated.
Peace

gumbomadness · Post by **gumbomadness** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:14 pm

a minor scale differs from a major because the 3rd, 6th and 7th of the major scale are flattened to become minor.

a harmonic minor differs from a major scale because the 3rd and 6th are flattened to make it.

a melodic minor only has a flattened three.

So..
C major : C D E F G A B C
C natural minor: C D Eb F G Ab Bb C
C harmonic minor: C D Eb F G Ab B C
C melodic minor: C F Eb F G A B C

got it?

someone else.. can do the modes, im not sure what you mean anyway.

fatjack · Post by **fatjack** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:14 pm

you really dont need to worry much about harmonic and melodic minor modes, trust me

souna · Post by **souna** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:45 pm

Thanks thats what I needed to know. About the modes though is it the same basic idea of the major modes, i.e aolian ..., or is it different?
Also, is the chordal theory associated with those two forms of minor scales the same as the others?
peace

i like tictacs · Post by **i like tictacs** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:12 pm

fatjack wrote:you really dont need to worry much about harmonic and melodic minor modes, trust me

what if i want to know what scale last stop is based on!?!?111?!111 whate ver shall i do1111!":!1111"!!!11

fatjack · Post by **fatjack** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:01 am

souna wrote:Thanks thats what I needed to know. About the modes though is it the same basic idea of the major modes, i.e aolian ..., or is it different?
Also, is the chordal theory associated with those two forms of minor scales the same as the others?
peace

its the exact same

fatjack · Post by **fatjack** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:01 am

i like tictacs wrote:
fatjack wrote:you really dont need to worry much about harmonic and melodic minor modes, trust me
what if i want to know what scale last stop is based on!?!?111?!111 whate ver shall i do1111!":!1111"!!!11

i think you'll live

souna · Post by **souna** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:14 pm

thanks a lot
peace

DMBFan63 · Post by **DMBFan63** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:18 pm

fatjack wrote:
i like tictacs wrote:
fatjack wrote:you really dont need to worry much about harmonic and melodic minor modes, trust me
what if i want to know what scale last stop is based on!?!?111?!111 whate ver shall i do1111!":!1111"!!!11
i think you'll live

souna · Post by **souna** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:03 am

ok other question why do you have an assending melodic minor that's dif from a descending one?

fatjack · Post by **fatjack** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:00 pm

souna wrote:ok other question why do you have an assending melodic minor that's dif from a descending one?

hmm this requires a little explanation of the minor scales, but im in one of those moods, so here goes

the harmonic and melodic minor scales are scale forms of the natural minor scale. the natural minor scale is simply a mode of the major scale and the harmonic and melodic minors were "created" to deal with the "problems" of natural minor.

the first of these "problem's was the lack of a leading tone. a leading tone is necessary in order to create a functional V chord (and as we all know from the chords and voicings thread, the V chord is the basis of harmonic movement away from I). so basically, a leading tone was "created" in order to solve this problem as you ascend the scale. but this caused another problem: a melodic augmented 2 between scale degree b6 and sclae degree 7. so what was done? scaled degree b6 was raised to scale degree 6. this created the melodic minor.

and now the reason its different ascending and descending: the reason you need a leading tone while you ascend is to give that final push back to scale degree 1. it gives the scale a sense of complettion. this isn't necessary when you descend back down to 1 because the scale maintains the diatonic order when descending in natural minor. you dont need the leading tone to do this when you are coming from above scale degree 1.

i hope that wasn't too confusing, and i realize that i have written this before somewhere, and it was probably less confusing when i wrote it then because i hadn't just woken up

souna · Post by **souna** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:34 pm

No it does make sense. The only problem is when one is playing a melody, one doesn't just go up and down the scale so how am I supposed to create a melody on that scale with those two diferent ways? In other words should I depending on my melody play this or that note and it'll work? I hope I'm making sense.

fatjack · Post by **fatjack** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:55 pm

souna wrote:No it does make sense. The only problem is when one is playing a melody, one doesn't just go up and down the scale so how am I supposed to create a melody on that scale with those two diferent ways? In other words should I depending on my melody play this or that note and it'll work? I hope I'm making sense.

i understand what you mean, it all depends on what note comes next in the melody

lets say you have a melody starting on scale degree 5 and it is moving upward. you would go to scale degree b6 if you go back to 5 right afterwards. but if you were moving up to 7 (flat or regular), you would choose scale degree 6.

continuing with that melody, if you go up to a 7 it follows the same principle. choose 7 if you are going back up to 1, but choose b7 seven if you are going back down to a 6. and if you continue back down to 5, you would use a b6 to get there.

see what i mean?

souna · Post by **souna** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:59 pm

yup makes perfect sense thanks a lot

gumbomadness · Post by **gumbomadness** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:06 pm

A very well played DMBTABS thread.