Chord Progressions and Chord Voicings

[MWR]

sry for the double post, but fatjack, I think you and i should become the official dmbtabs theory gurus....hehehe.... 8)

*cough cough*

*Inserts foot in mouth*....my bad dude. You rock too. wow...now i have to go hide in a corner.....love me again?

I'm just messin with you. It's great to have another educated musician on the boards to help field questions.

[i-am-me]

you guys are the power houses of the boards with respect to theory.

[fatjack]

you guys are the power houses of the boards with respect to theory.

and lets not forget penis size

[MahlerGrooves]

you guys are the power houses of the boards with respect to theory.

and lets not forget penis size

"My V7 chord is bigger than YOUR V7chord!"

[fatjack]

you guys are the power houses of the boards with respect to theory.

and lets not forget penis size

"My V7 chord is bigger than YOUR V7chord!"

i feel like a loser for thinking thats funny...

im also the only person in my class who laughs at our professor's theory jokes: im pretty sure everyone in that class hates me

EDIT: and mine's bigger anyway: im a jazz major, so it would be a 9th chord

[MahlerGrooves]

you guys are the power houses of the boards with respect to theory.

and lets not forget penis size

"My V7 chord is bigger than YOUR V7chord!"

i feel like a loser for thinking thats funny...

im also the only person in my class who laughs at our professor's theory jokes: im pretty sure everyone in that class hates me

EDIT: and mine's bigger anyway: im a jazz major, so it would be a 9th chord

My theory teacher told us this amazing story. He was studying in Messien's theory class in Paris (Pierre Boulez was his classmate). Messien walks in, plays a 16 note cluster and then starts talking. After a 3 hour lecture he says "And now, everyone needs to write down that cluster I played at teh beginning of class. If you get it wrong, you're out of the class." There WERE 200 people enrolled, but after that, only 3 remained.

He also was in a revolving door with Bernstein. Wierd man.

I laugh at theory jokes too....and everyone in my class hates me as well. And so do the other bassists in my school...except Big Mo from Atlanta...who kicks ass.

[fatjack]

you guys are the power houses of the boards with respect to theory.

and lets not forget penis size

"My V7 chord is bigger than YOUR V7chord!"

i feel like a loser for thinking thats funny...

im also the only person in my class who laughs at our professor's theory jokes: im pretty sure everyone in that class hates me

EDIT: and mine's bigger anyway: im a jazz major, so it would be a 9th chord

My theory teacher told us this amazing story. He was studying in Messien's theory class in Paris (Pierre Boulez was his classmate). Messien walks in, plays a 16 note cluster and then starts talking. After a 3 hour lecture he says "And now, everyone needs to write down that cluster I played at teh beginning of class. If you get it wrong, you're out of the class." There WERE 200 people enrolled, but after that, only 3 remained.

thats just unfair, you would have to have perfect pitch to even get the right key

[MahlerGrooves]

indeed. people cried

[mlb1399]

For examples let's just use C major.

Let me see how far off I am. The general progression is tonic-sub-dom-tonic, but that can be changed and altered in anyway. To get a better idea of what chords lead better to others is it safe to say that chords in the progression that don't contain a C, E, or G feel like the are pulling away from the tonal center.

So for instance:

You play a Cmaj(CEG) then play a Dminor(DFA) which leads away from the the tonal center, causing some tension which needs to be resolved so you play a Fmaj(FAC) which flows from the Dminor with the similarity of the F & A and also gets closer to the tonal center having a C in it, then you play a Gmaj7(GBDE) which leads back into the Cmaj easily because of the G and finishing with the Cmaj resolving the tension?

What makes the IV lead to the V? Some of the other makes sense because they have similar notes, is it just because the V and especially the V7 is so close to the tonal center???

I know you should never go by the book and need to find your own style but are there any general rules of thumb of which chord leads to the other??

For instance:
C(I)-leads to anything
D(II)-leads to ????
E(lIII)-leads to ???
F(IV)-leads to V and ????
G(V)-leads to I and VIm? and?????
A(VIm)-leads to I and IV and ????
B(VIIm7)-leads to IV?? and ?????

Thanks for all your help!

[fatjack]

For examples let's just use C major.

Let me see how far off I am. The general progression is tonic-sub-dom-tonic, but that can be changed and altered in anyway. To get a better idea of what chords lead better to others is it safe to say that chords in the progression that don't contain a C, E, or G feel like the are pulling away from the tonal center.

So for instance:

You play a Cmaj(CEG) then play a Dminor(DFA) which leads away from the the tonal center, causing some tension which needs to be resolved so you play a Fmaj(FAC) which flows from the Dminor with the similarity of the F & A and also gets closer to the tonal center having a C in it, then you play a Gmaj7(GBDE) which leads back into the Cmaj easily because of the G and finishing with the Cmaj resolving the tension?

What makes the IV lead to the V? Some of the other makes sense because they have similar notes, is it just because the V and especially the V7 is so close to the tonal center???

I know you should never go by the book and need to find your own style but are there any general rules of thumb of which chord leads to the other??

For instance:
C(I)-leads to anything
D(II)-leads to ????
E(lIII)-leads to ???
F(IV)-leads to V and ????
G(V)-leads to I and VIm? and?????
A(VIm)-leads to I and IV and ????
B(VIIm7)-leads to IV?? and ?????

Thanks for all your help!

basically you you have everything there

here are some basic "idiomatic" progression

I-V-I*
I-V(7)**-I
I-IV-V(7)-I
I-II-V(7)-I
I-IV-II-V(7)-I
I-VI-II-IV-V(7)-I
I-VI-IV-II-V(7)-I

*the I at the end of each progression can be replaced with a VI, except to end a piece
**the "(7)" after each five implies that you can play just a regular V, or a V7. you can also have V lead into V7 and then back to I or VI. HOWEVER, you cannot have V7 move to V, because you are simply ignoring the dissonance (the 7th of the chord) instead of resolving. This is called "dangling" dissonance and is a no no.

here are some other things to keep in mind:

its very important to note what tone is in the bass of a chord. for example, a IV and a IV6 have two completely different functions. IV acts a predominant, and IV6 has a similiar function to a VI chord (because they both have scale degree 6 in the bass)

about VI

VI does not serve only to "replace" a I. it can be used to expand, or help move away from as well. moving from a I to a VI is very common because it creates a gradual shift away from I (because they have two common tones, which is less drastic a movement then moving from a I to II or a V)

VI is a great chord because it opens the possibilities for some real cool movement in the bass, most notably, a descent in thirds.

using the basic formula of a tonic-predominant-dominant-tonic does not allow for scale degree 6 to be in the bass. but with a VI or IV6 its very possible.

take this progression for instance: I VI IV II V6/5 I

notice the movement in the bas: scale degrees 1-6-4-2-7-1. its a movement down in thirds and then a strong pull to 1 with the leading tone. try it out and see how it sounds, its a very common bassline

there are a lot of techniques that display more specific functions of these chords, but they are rather inconsequential when applied to the guitar because the guitar is not capable of the same voice-leading techniques as a piano.

[mlb1399]

Wow. Great info. Thanks a lot fatjack. You certainly know your stuff. The only thing I am confused about(well one of many) is the V6/5???

[fatjack]

Wow. Great info. Thanks a lot fatjack. You certainly know your stuff. The only thing I am confused about(well one of many) is the V6/5???

sorry, probably should have explained. its an inversion of the V7 chord in which the 3rd of the chord (in the case of V, scale degree 7) is in the bass. ill get around to posting more inversions and explain figures...

[mlb1399]

Yeah. The sub-dominant is, basically, the IV chord function. It has less pull to the tonic than the dominant, and usually leads to it. The Dominant is, basically, the V chord function. Comes after sub dom, USUALLY, and right before the tonic. Usually contains the leading tone in the scale (G-B-D...B is the leading tone), and therefore has a huge pull to the tonic.

So you would play a tonic chord to start then you could follow by either a dominant and then back to the tonic or you could play a tonic then sub-dominant which would need to be followed by a dominant before going back to tonic???

Don't get in the locked mindset that I have been taught of "need to". USUALLY it goes, tonic-sub dom- dom -ton -dom -ton - transition - tonic --- etc.

If you learn the sound and the pull of each chord and where they feel like they WANT to go, you will learn with your own sense of the music.

But what i outlined is the way it is taught in music school....tonic to start, followed by sub dom, followed by dom, ending with tonic.

If you want, I can post some chord progressions and chordal analyses of dave songs to illustrate.

Did you ever get a chance to do this?

[MahlerGrooves]

YEah, I did, but I am at my gf's house for a little while (she had some health issues this week.). I will post this weekend. Sorry for the delay!

[mlb1399]

YEah, I did, but I am at my gf's house for a little while (she had some health issues this week.). I will post this weekend. Sorry for the delay!

Oh no don't worry about it man. What, your girlfriend comes before some guy that you don't know on the internet?
No big hurry. Whenever you get time. You and fatjack have done a great job explaining everything so far, thank you.