Koa vs. Nato?

[mangold]

hahah.. okay my bad.. so nato and mahogany don't sound anything a like?

not your bad, you were right.

they sound nothing alike. nato sounds like composite

[hcole]

having wood in it does not make it wood... i made the "mistake" of assuming when he said wood he meant solid wood. NATO is made like plywood, it is ground down into a pulp and then compressed and adhered to itself like particle board. it has no grain as normal wood does which is what gives different woods different sounds. its just particle board shit. the fact that the substance that makes up the pulp comes from a tree means nothing, it could be ground up composite or even rice krispies and the sound would be the same as NATO.

and googling NATO doesnt mean you "verified" your information

Praise, the method you speak of is used on laminate guitars of all woods, koa included. Not all laminates are made that way and I personally couldn't tell you how Takamine makes their laminates. If I had to bet on it I would imagine that they use the same method to build both the koa and nato laminates.

Googling nato is verifying my information, if you wrote a paper for school and used google to find some websites for info you could certainly site the websites in the bibliography. If you just talk out of your ass it's a tough source to site.

[mangold]

having wood in it does not make it wood... i made the "mistake" of assuming when he said wood he meant solid wood. NATO is made like plywood, it is ground down into a pulp and then compressed and adhered to itself like particle board. it has no grain as normal wood does which is what gives different woods different sounds. its just particle board shit. the fact that the substance that makes up the pulp comes from a tree means nothing, it could be ground up composite or even rice krispies and the sound would be the same as NATO.

and googling NATO doesnt mean you "verified" your information

Praise, the method you speak of is used on laminate guitars of all woods, koa included. Not all laminates are made that way and I personally couldn't tell you how Takamine makes their laminates. If I had to bet on it I would imagine that they use the same method to build both the koa and nato laminates.

Googling nato is verifying my information, if you wrote a paper for school and used google to find some websites for info you could certainly site the websites in the bibliography. If you just talk out of your ass it's a tough source to site.

EXACTLY. laminate is not wood. laminate is wood substitute. it lacks the tone and feel of real wood.

and i didnt mean that google wasnt a good source, i probably could have worded that differently. i meant that there is alot of information out there and citing one source is not enough to verify it. reading that nato comes from a tree means nothing when talking about guitars.

[hcole]

EXACTLY. laminate is not wood. laminate is wood substitute. it lacks the tone and feel of real wood.

and i didnt mean that google wasnt a good source, i probably could have worded that differently. i meant that there is alot of information out there and citing one source is not enough to verify it. reading that nato comes from a tree means nothing when talking about guitars.

The koa guitar he asked about in his initial post is a laminate as are the nato guitars that Tak makes. In terms of the guitars he is talking about I don't see any real differences in the quality of wood being used.

If you look at the majority of information provided in this thread it is either;
(A)ridiculous

again this is an amazing guitar, GET IT, SOUNDS LIKE A FUCKING 714 BECAUSE OF THE CEDAR yeah anyway buy it.

or
(B) inaccurate

*head explodes*

nato isnt a real wood. there is no nato tree. its synthetic. tone = not good.

I wasn't questioning the info you provided (that it's fiberboard) because it might be true. Some lams are actual strips of wood laminated together(most Yairi's), in which case they aren't the compressed fiberboard stuff. Since I don't know which method tak uses then I can't really comment on whether they are or aren't fiberboard.

I get frustrated when someone asks a question and people present opinions and false information as fact.

[mangold]

EXACTLY. laminate is not wood. laminate is wood substitute. it lacks the tone and feel of real wood.

and i didnt mean that google wasnt a good source, i probably could have worded that differently. i meant that there is alot of information out there and citing one source is not enough to verify it. reading that nato comes from a tree means nothing when talking about guitars.

The koa guitar he asked about in his initial post is a laminate as are the nato guitars that Tak makes. In terms of the guitars he is talking about I don't see any real differences in the quality of wood being used.

If you look at the majority of information provided in this thread it is either;
(A)ridiculous

again this is an amazing guitar, GET IT, SOUNDS LIKE A FUCKING 714 BECAUSE OF THE CEDAR yeah anyway buy it.

or
(B) inaccurate

*head explodes*

nato isnt a real wood. there is no nato tree. its synthetic. tone = not good.

I wasn't questioning the info you provided (that it's fiberboard) because it might be true. Some lams are actual strips of wood laminated together(most Yairi's), in which case they aren't the compressed fiberboard stuff. Since I don't know which method tak uses then I can't really comment on whether they are or aren't fiberboard.

I get frustrated when someone asks a question and people present opinions and false information as fact.

i understand what you mean. although i dont feel as harshly about opinions, but if you dont know the facts then dont post.

we're not so different you and I

[fliggil]

So assuming that the koa and nato laminate on these Taka models are manufactured in the same manner, do you all think there would be a definate noticable difference between the 2? Basically what it comes down to is that the Koa model would cost me $500, or I could buy the Nato model elsewhere (since Guitar Center doesnt carry it) and for the same $500 also have a hard shell Takamine carry case.

[mangold]

So assuming that the koa and nato laminate on these Taka models are manufactured in the same manner, do you all think there would be a definate noticable difference between the 2? Basically what it comes down to is that the Koa model would cost me $500, or I could buy the Nato model elsewhere (since Guitar Center doesnt carry it) and for the same $500 also have a hard shell Takamine carry case.

i personally would go for the koa because it looks so much cooler, but tonally they should be pretty similar

[hcole]

So assuming that the koa and nato laminate on these Taka models are manufactured in the same manner, do you all think there would be a definate noticable difference between the 2? Basically what it comes down to is that the Koa model would cost me $500, or I could buy the Nato model elsewhere (since Guitar Center doesnt carry it) and for the same $500 also have a hard shell Takamine carry case.

You can take two guitars that are exactly the same and they will sound at least a little different. It's just the nature of guitars.

That said, I don't think the guitars you mention are going to be drastically different. I know the koa has a cedar top, I don't know about the nato. If you've played the koa and like it I would say go for it.

[filmdude100cms]

EXACTLY. laminate is not wood. laminate is wood substitute. it lacks the tone and feel of real wood.

and i didnt mean that google wasnt a good source, i probably could have worded that differently. i meant that there is alot of information out there and citing one source is not enough to verify it. reading that nato comes from a tree means nothing when talking about guitars.

The koa guitar he asked about in his initial post is a laminate as are the nato guitars that Tak makes. In terms of the guitars he is talking about I don't see any real differences in the quality of wood being used.

If you look at the majority of information provided in this thread it is either;
(A)ridiculous

again this is an amazing guitar, GET IT, SOUNDS LIKE A FUCKING 714 BECAUSE OF THE CEDAR yeah anyway buy it.

or
(B) inaccurate

*head explodes*

nato isnt a real wood. there is no nato tree. its synthetic. tone = not good.

I wasn't questioning the info you provided (that it's fiberboard) because it might be true. Some lams are actual strips of wood laminated together(most Yairi's), in which case they aren't the compressed fiberboard stuff. Since I don't know which method tak uses then I can't really comment on whether they are or aren't fiberboard.

I get frustrated when someone asks a question and people present opinions and false information as fact.

actually yeah, umm back and sides dont do much sound, its the top, i played my guitar, went to the expensive room, picked up a 714, sounded similar, so i got my tak, cheaper and great soundin.

[hcole]

actually yeah, umm back and sides dont do much sound, its the top, i played my guitar, went to the expensive room, picked up a 714, sounded similar, so i got my tak, cheaper and great soundin.

Do you know this in your heart?

[Ryeguy]

actually yeah, umm back and sides dont do much sound, its the top, i played my guitar, went to the expensive room, picked up a 714, sounded similar, so i got my tak, cheaper and great soundin.

wait.... so then having a rosewood back and sides compared to having a mahogany back and sides on the same model guitar (same tops/construction and everything), it would not change the over sound between them??? i must be missing something here.

[Kahn]

actually yeah, umm back and sides dont do much sound, its the top, i played my guitar, went to the expensive room, picked up a 714, sounded similar, so i got my tak, cheaper and great soundin.

Do you know this in your heart?

bwahahahahahahaha

[hcole]

actually yeah, umm back and sides dont do much sound, its the top, i played my guitar, went to the expensive room, picked up a 714, sounded similar, so i got my tak, cheaper and great soundin.

wait.... so then having a rosewood back and sides compared to having a mahogany back and sides on the same model guitar (same tops/construction and everything), it would not change the over sound between them??? i must be missing something here.

The part of the guitar that contributes the most to the tone is the top, the back and sides certainly play a part, but not as much as the top.

Truth be told the most important aspect of the guitar isn't the materials it's made with but the design and way it's constructed. I'd take a well designed and built guitar with sitka top and nato back and sides over a poorly designed and constructed guitar with AAAA Adirondack Spruce and Master Grade Brazilian rosewood.

[filmdude100cms]

actually yeah, umm back and sides dont do much sound, its the top, i played my guitar, went to the expensive room, picked up a 714, sounded similar, so i got my tak, cheaper and great soundin.

wait.... so then having a rosewood back and sides compared to having a mahogany back and sides on the same model guitar (same tops/construction and everything), it would not change the over sound between them??? i must be missing something here.

The part of the guitar that contributes the most to the tone is the top, the back and sides certainly play a part, but not as much as the top.

Truth be told the most important aspect of the guitar isn't the materials it's made with but the design and way it's constructed. I'd take a well designed and built guitar with sitka top and nato back and sides over a poorly designed and constructed guitar with AAAA Adirondack Spruce and Master Grade Brazilian rosewood.

really, well your a dumbass

[hcole]

really, well your a dumbass

Had you not said;

again this is an amazing guitar, GET IT, SOUNDS LIKE A FUCKING 714 BECAUSE OF THE CEDAR yeah anyway buy it.

while it is your opinion (which is fine), you look like an 8 year old due to the way you typed it.

and then said;

actually yeah, umm back and sides dont do much sound, its the top, i played my guitar, went to the expensive room, picked up a 714, sounded similar, so i got my tak, cheaper and great soundin.

which is partly true, the top is responsible for the majority of the sound. It's not entirely true, using your block head logic we'd have more or less to sounds coming from guitars cedar and spruce.

I'd probably take your "dumbass" comment a little more seriously.