Raven/Lillywhite

[Davy28]

Because I heard it was so much better than the busted version, I downloaded Raven/Lillywhite and it kicks ass. It is better because it is more off-beat and edgy as opposed to the bright and breezy BS version, but at the same time mysterious and thought-provoking, like something by the moody blues.

The only thing I wonder is does Dave know what the hell he is singing? The lyrics sound pretty much like the babble of a drunken fool.

[GSR]

Because I heard it was so much better than the busted version, I downloaded Raven/Lillywhite and it kicks ass. It is better because it is more off-beat and edgy as opposed to the bright and breezy BS version, but at the same time mysterious and thought-provoking, like something by the moody blues.

The only thing I wonder is does Dave know what the hell he is singing? The lyrics sound pretty much like the babble of a drunken fool.

i have no idea... but i love some of the stuff on lillywhite. i almost like that version of grey street better than the bs version. jtr and sweet up and down kick ass too.

[paywad927]

download a few versions of raven from 2000. those are definately the best versions. you may have to go to dmbalmanac to find the lyrics tho, cuz hes hard to understand.

[Jay]

best ravens:

6/20/00
9/6/00
9/15/00* just awesome
9/20/00

and 4/4/02, which was the best of 2002, after that, it went downhill.

i love raven...one of my favorite songs, and such a cool one to play, especially on a 12er

[Jay]

6/20/00:

rise and reason you give
too much is not enough
eat what you see leave bone
for someone else to cook
romance calls you to tea yeah
sip it like you’re typical

no no raven to see here
it imitates beauty well
black bird from a dark heaven
oh won’t you drink to live a lie

oh come tossed away
reap what you know
you know there’s me to drink
oh what came of grace
roll the money and the rain



9/15/00:

rise and rage oh,
squeeze your little head
oh your love time alone
the magazine sweet spread
all the reasons you
spend alone at night
oh sweet hours here
discovering what's not right

oh this girl now
she's only seventeen
met a man in secret room one day
and he's been in between
so now wrought is the rain
the wrongs are counted high
how to forgive your own flesh and blood
the innocence run dry

the innocence dry


9/20/00:
wash in walk out
man he thinks he’s cool
black tie and hair tied back
won’t be late for school
so much goes on to me
won’t you go by your self
down the dark, dark allyway where
you gotta be fool enough


oh this dark isle
i’m sick of this dry town
no man is strong but oh
but surely God likes a drink now and then
oh but wage is up
the wages of your sins
got caught in the middle of some damn thing
i want to drink this in

[DJR]

the version of grey street on lillywhite is way better, but you really can't hear what dave's singing half the time - really wish they would've put JTR on busted stuff but oh well

[paywad927]

best ravens:

6/20/00
9/6/00
9/15/00* just awesome
9/20/00

and 4/4/02, which was the best of 2002, after that, it went downhill.

i love raven...one of my favorite songs, and such a cool one to play, especially on a 12er

yeah, my favorites are 6.20.00 and 9.15.00. once i saw the lyrics it was over

[Cor]

I love the Lyrics in Grey street on LWS.

Oh, look at how she listens
She says nothing of what she thinks
Just listens to abuses
And by the kitchen sink...

She thinks, "Hey!
Why do I live like this?
I laid it on the line
How did it end like this?"
Oh, then the hopes in her heart fall
And she feels the weight in lies
And the colors mix together to grey
Grey Street

Begging now the difference
She prays to God most everynight
Although she swears He doesn't listen
There's hope in her that He just might

She said, "I Pray!" ("I Pray!" "I Pray!")
"But they fall on deaf ears
Am I supposed to take it all on myself
To get out of this place?"

But soon the hopes in her heart fall
And then she rode the light in
Oh, now the pain it's taking over
And again she sees the pain
And then the colors mix together to grey
On Grey Street

Oh and now it's time to begin
Take what you can from your dreams
Make it real as anything
Takes the work out of the courage

She said, "Please!" ("Please!" "Please!")
"There's someone sleeping outside my door
I live on the corner of Grey Street
At the end of the world."

And the wrongs in her whole plan
It's as hopeless as the day she came
And the man she calls her father
Ignores her and ignores her pain

Oh, when I walk out in the morning
I cannot see the sunlight
And all the colors mix together to grey
On Grey Street
On Grey Street
It's Grey Street, here goes

So, if you don't see your Heaven
Don't convince yourself you're done
Just 'cause the things around you seem heavy
Doesn't mean you can give up this ground

With your hopes way down in your heart now
Move out
And, oh, the wait is over
Oh, and you might notice all your worries
You can leave them all behind
And the colors mix together to grey
On Grey Street
On Grey Street
To grey...
Yeah, yeah...

Grey St.

I got those off of a website, and some of the lyrcis are a little rough, but, as a whole, it seems way more inspirational than the BS version.

Cory

[DJR]

yeah on busted stuff, the first time i listened and heard that "breaks her heart" thing, i was like

[Davy28]

Thats one of the things I love about lillywhite, there's something about how that cool twelve string cuts through the band to blend with daves voice to create that dark, sometimes even sinister sound. That is especially true with Raven, but also with JTR, Sweet up and Down, and Grey Street. You don't really get any of that on Busted Stuff.

[Ranting Thespian]

Here's the thing about the LWS and Busted Stuff. The LWS were more lyricly creative and more sparse and abstract in their structure. The reason why was because it wasn't even finished. Most of the lyrics, Dave just wrote out to make a take, and that's why he improv'd the lyrics until Busted Stuff, because he didn't write any set lyrics, so he just sang around the topic the song was about. Then the sparse playing and jams, again since they didn't have the songs completely finished. The last thing about the LWS recording that made them bad, they were all dark and dreary, not in an agressive or philisophical way, but in a *I don't want to fucking do this, life is hell* type of way. They were all down, and you can hear it in every note that they didn't want to do it, and were depressed, expecialy Dave with his lyrics and singing. That is the bad thing about the LWS, and ultimately what lead them to shelving them

Now, Busted Stuff, they loved it, they wanted to work. They felt happier about the songs, and thought about using the shortening songs for the album that they did for Everyday, but not to that extreme, and not to every song (hence bartender still was about 10 minutes). They liked the songs, and they liked the ideas, and even the sad songs like Grace Is Gone had a bit of a not life is hell look but more of a bad things happen but we must be strong and be able to move on.



So, over LWS and Busted Stuff for me (even though I loved JTR and missed it on BS) I will take Busted Stuff because it is the album the band liked, and you feel that in every song, so the album is much more enjoyable to listen to.


Enough of that Coca-Cola, I guess, lol.

[Davy28]

I like Busted as an album better because all the songs have a unity to them, a characteristic bonding that allows you to listen to the whole album nonstop without ever getting bored. Lillywhite may have some better versions, but the song unity is not as good. I think that darkness that is felt in the LWS versions do some songs good, others not as good. Raven is a perfect example. I never cared for that song on BS, but became obsessed with it after hearing Raven/LWS.

I can see why the band was pissed about LWS, because Lillywhite made the band do like 100 some odd takes of Sweet Up and Down.

[Jay]

i like the LWS, whether or not the band does. i'm not one to like anything just because someone else does, even if they made it.

however, being a singer of sorts, i understand dave's frustration with the leak, because i don't really like displaying things that i personally feel are flawed, even if someone else says it is good.

so i suppose it is a difference of opinion between dave and i. i like it, and he doesn't.

the lyrics on LWS are its greatest strength and its greatest weakness i think. some of them are amazing, and some of them are obviously just ramblings...and whether or not people like them (whether that is because they are truely good, or because it's cool to like the things that no one has heard, i dont know) is their business, but dave has said in a lot of interviews that he thought the lyrics were total crap, and if i were in his position, i'd be embarassed. it's like someone forcing you to show them work before it's done. "hey, play me this song, hey, read me your poem, hey, show me your film..." and it's embarassing...you sit and watch their face thinking "this is total crap, i don't want them thinking this is what i do." i'm sure that has a lot to do with the 2001 tour. all the captain teases without ever playing the song...all the talk of "yeah, i'm not playing pig until they take down those signs..." i wonder, was he thinking "what more can these people take from me?"

[Davy28]

That must have been a cruddy time for him. Not only abandoning his longtime producer, but finally realizing the toll his excessive touring was taking on his family. And coming out with Everyday, an album which for the first time after all his success got bittersweet reviews, while work he had previously thrown away in disgust was now being rampaged on Napster and the like.