Chord Progressions and Chord Voicings

[fatjack]

Here's some stuff that Mahler might have glazed over, and i might be repeating myself...

like he said you basically have three families of chords: tonic, dominant, and predominant.

When he said the most basic progression is I-IV-V-I he was a little off, its just I-V-I.

what you have to understand is that EVERY song in some way outlines the motion from I to V, then back to one. hell, if you want to be real simple, the most basic progression is I-I.

this is so because progression get more complicated as you EXPAND ON I. thats a concept you really have to grasp: progressions aren't simply moving from chord to chord, they are expanding a single senority (the I chord). and you also have to understand that progressions are based upon the need to resolve, which is brought about by dissonance

Here's a lesson on WHY V moves so strongly to I

consider a I chord. it contains scale degrees 1 3 and 5. these played together can be seen as the most consonant intervals (as in there is no dissonance, thusly, no propulsion to go to another chord).

now consider something like a V7 chord. it contains scale degrees 5 7 2 and 4. now scale degree 5 is obviously the common tone (as mahler pointed out) so its not going anywhere. but the other three scale degrees all have directed motion. scale degree 2 and 7 both lead back to the tonic by step (so in essence, you have two tones pulling towards scale degree one), and scale degree 4 wants to fall down by step to scale degree 3.

basically all chordal movement is directed by the dominant (a perfect 5th interval) relationships. take the II chord for example. why is it a "pre-dominant?" thats because II leads to V much like V leads to I, because II is the fifth of V. make sense? and the reason four serves as a pre-dominant is because it is very similar to a II7 chord (just without scale degree 2)

side note: mahler left out an important dominant functioning chord: VII6. this serves as a dominant because it has the same tones as the V7 chord (just no 5). it serves well as a passing chord between I and I6

and he also mentioned the VI chord serving as a tonic chord. this is true, but because it doesn't have the stability of I because it lacks the tonic. the VI chord serves as a sort of "trick" tonic chord. in fact, when V moves to VI, it creates whats called a "deceptive" cadence

[MahlerGrooves]

side note: mahler left out an important dominant functioning chord: VII6. this serves as a dominant because it has the same tones as the V7 chord (just no 5). it serves well as a passing chord between I and I6

damnit, i knew i forgot one. good call. ah well. good thing im not a theory professor...for me its like trying to explain walking...i would forget a step just cause im so used to i dont even think about it anymore.

[fatjack]

Yeah. The sub-dominant is, basically, the IV chord function. It has less pull to the tonic than the dominant, and usually leads to it. The Dominant is, basically, the V chord function. Comes after sub dom, USUALLY, and right before the tonic. Usually contains the leading tone in the scale (G-B-D...B is the leading tone), and therefore has a huge pull to the tonic.

you are acutally using this term a little incorrectly...

the sub dominant is the term used to describe scale degree four (because it is a dominant BELOW the tonic)

the term you are looking for is PRE-dominant. chords like II and IV are pre-dominants, meaning that they come before the dominant (V).

Actually, that is incorrect...partially. The subdominant IS the fourth scale degree, but is also assigned to name the chord built upon that degree and is the name of a function. Pre dominant chords precede the dominant, that is true, but only a sub dominant chord has an illicit pull and theoretical requirement to find a dominant. Or at least that's how my professors taught it.

yes, but a II chord is NOT a sub-dominant chord, which is what i wanted to clear up.

and actually, a root position IV chord does not have as strong a pull to V as a II chord or a IV6 chord. scale degree 4 in the bass usually has a tendency to fall to three rather than up to 5.

II has a MUCH stronger pull to V than a IV chord. this is because its related to V by a dominant relationship, which always has a stronger pull than adjacent chords.

[MahlerGrooves]

Yeah. The sub-dominant is, basically, the IV chord function. It has less pull to the tonic than the dominant, and usually leads to it. The Dominant is, basically, the V chord function. Comes after sub dom, USUALLY, and right before the tonic. Usually contains the leading tone in the scale (G-B-D...B is the leading tone), and therefore has a huge pull to the tonic.

you are acutally using this term a little incorrectly...

the sub dominant is the term used to describe scale degree four (because it is a dominant BELOW the tonic)

the term you are looking for is PRE-dominant. chords like II and IV are pre-dominants, meaning that they come before the dominant (V).

Actually, that is incorrect...partially. The subdominant IS the fourth scale degree, but is also assigned to name the chord built upon that degree and is the name of a function. Pre dominant chords precede the dominant, that is true, but only a sub dominant chord has an illicit pull and theoretical requirement to find a dominant. Or at least that's how my professors taught it.

yes, but a II chord is NOT a sub-dominant chord, which is what i wanted to clear up.

and actually, a root position IV chord does not have as strong a pull to V as a II chord or a IV6 chord. scale degree 4 in the bass usually has a tendency to fall to three rather than up to 5.

II has a MUCH stronger pull to V than a IV chord. this is because its related to V by a dominant relationship, which always has a stronger pull than adjacent chords.

I think it all depends on which book one learns from. The Hindemith book says its a sub dom, but the schoenberg book doesnt (my prof used the hindemith).

It's really confusing with the naming, but I think you and I actually agree but are just using a diff term...I really think its one of those confusing name things. BUT I am going to call my theory professor just to make sure...cause the man has like 3 Ph.Ds and is crazy smart so i trust him lol 8)

[fatjack]

did you mean to just quote me, or were you saying something else?

[MahlerGrooves]

no, i said something but the damn thing froze and messed up...i edited though

[fatjack]

Yeah. The sub-dominant is, basically, the IV chord function. It has less pull to the tonic than the dominant, and usually leads to it. The Dominant is, basically, the V chord function. Comes after sub dom, USUALLY, and right before the tonic. Usually contains the leading tone in the scale (G-B-D...B is the leading tone), and therefore has a huge pull to the tonic.

you are acutally using this term a little incorrectly...

the sub dominant is the term used to describe scale degree four (because it is a dominant BELOW the tonic)

the term you are looking for is PRE-dominant. chords like II and IV are pre-dominants, meaning that they come before the dominant (V).

Actually, that is incorrect...partially. The subdominant IS the fourth scale degree, but is also assigned to name the chord built upon that degree and is the name of a function. Pre dominant chords precede the dominant, that is true, but only a sub dominant chord has an illicit pull and theoretical requirement to find a dominant. Or at least that's how my professors taught it.

yes, but a II chord is NOT a sub-dominant chord, which is what i wanted to clear up.

and actually, a root position IV chord does not have as strong a pull to V as a II chord or a IV6 chord. scale degree 4 in the bass usually has a tendency to fall to three rather than up to 5.

II has a MUCH stronger pull to V than a IV chord. this is because its related to V by a dominant relationship, which always has a stronger pull than adjacent chords.

I think it all depends on which book one learns from. The Hindemith book says its a sub dom, but the schoenberg book doesnt (my prof used the hindemith).

It's really confusing with the naming, but I think you and I actually agree but are just using a diff term...I really think its one of those confusing name things. BUT I am going to call my theory professor just to make sure...cause the man has like 3 Ph.Ds and is crazy smart so i trust him lol 8)

well, im learning from a very brilliant theory professor as well

maybe this will help. do you remember why the subdominant is named so? because its the dominant BELOW the tonic. you cant call a II chord a sub dominant chord because its not a dominant below the tonic. see what i mean? pre-dominant is a more universal term because it applies to ALL chords that precede V, not just IV chords

[MahlerGrooves]

I agree with that. We just learned functions... so I wasn't necessarily saying that a ii IS a sub dom, but that it FUNCTIONS like one. But yeah, Herr Dr. Fueting (he is from berlin and now lives in nyc...WIERD man), says we are both right and yelled at me for being a "nitpicky little bastard who should relax and enjoy life". I love that man.

But I like your term better because it can be universally applied...which is expecially good in the atonal nightmare of pretention that we call the music of Schoenberg.

[fatjack]

I agree with that. We just learned functions... so I wasn't necessarily saying that a ii IS a sub dom, but that it FUNCTIONS like one. But yeah, Herr Dr. Fueting (he is from berlin and now lives in nyc...WIERD man), says we are both right and yelled at me for being a "nitpicky little bastard who should relax and enjoy life". I love that man.

But I like your term better because it can be universally applied...which is expecially good in the atonal nightmare of pretention that we call the music of Schoenberg.

EXACTLY

and yes, we are both awesome

[MahlerGrooves]

I agree with that. We just learned functions... so I wasn't necessarily saying that a ii IS a sub dom, but that it FUNCTIONS like one. But yeah, Herr Dr. Fueting (he is from berlin and now lives in nyc...WIERD man), says we are both right and yelled at me for being a "nitpicky little bastard who should relax and enjoy life". I love that man.

But I like your term better because it can be universally applied...which is expecially good in the atonal nightmare of pretention that we call the music of Schoenberg.

EXACTLY

and yes, we are both awesome

Indeed. He just called me back to yell at me in German. My professor is WAY too much of an alki....but most good ones are a ... well.. bit nuts

[MahlerGrooves]

sry for the double post, but fatjack, I think you and i should become the official dmbtabs theory gurus....hehehe.... 8)

[fatjack]

INVERSION LESSON

An inversion of a chord is simply this: taking a tone of the chord other than the root and putting it in the bass.

An important thing to understand is the difference between a "root" and "the bass"

THE ROOT IS THE TONE THAT THE CHORD IS NAMED AFTER

THE BASS IS THE LOWEST NOTE PLAYED IN A CHORD

simple right?

Let's first look at first inversion chords. Basically the first inversion of triad is when the 3rd of the triad is in the bass. It doesn't matter how the notes above it are arranged, a triad with the 3rd in the bass is ALWAYS first inversion.

So if we were to look at a I6 chord in the key of C major, we would have the notes C E and G, with E being the lowest note. "E" is the bass of the chord, but C is STILL the root of the chord. See how that works?

First inversion triads are denoted by a "6" (as in a I6 or a V6). This number is called a figure, more on figures late...

The second inversion is when the 5th of the triad is in the bass. and it is denoted with the figures 6/4. Usually the numbers of figures are written above one another, but thats impossible to write on the keyboard, so a "/" is used.

Questions?

[MWR]

sry for the double post, but fatjack, I think you and i should become the official dmbtabs theory gurus....hehehe.... 8)

*cough cough*

[MahlerGrooves]

sry for the double post, but fatjack, I think you and i should become the official dmbtabs theory gurus....hehehe.... 8)

*cough cough*

*Inserts foot in mouth*....my bad dude. You rock too. wow...now i have to go hide in a corner.....love me again?

[mlb1399]

All 3 of you guys rock!

Thank you for trying to keep us self-learning, tab reading guitar players informed on much needed music theory lessons.